We need more shit

If you try to reduce all the noise in your system you eventually lose any signal. Our attempts to protect ourselves from rubbish can mean we lose the gold dust.

23 thoughts on “We need more shit

  1. We have to realize that the social benefits of conformity are both huge and immediate. The benefits of digging through horse-shit looking for a pony … not the same game. BT/DTcheersp.s. is a matter of Newtonian thinking VS the new science of non-linearity. Outlying data is usually discarded as noise without loss. But, of course, since our universe is not actually clock-work, small changes can have big effects …

    Like

  2. Euan? You figure? Going along with the party line / group think has immediate negative consequences. Golly … that makes things hard to figure … folk are suffering hardship in order to fit in? Gosh … doesn't seem right.How about, yes, immense … catastrophic … but more long term. More distant. Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate.Sorry to be so painfully earnest. For me this sort of thing is kinda like mmmm don't drink the dish soap. Or brush teeth with shampoo.

    Like

  3. No danger of running out of that particular commodity anytime soon . . . its always good to scan for views that don't align with our own, sometimes those we disagree with and would normally dismiss outright have nuggets (or dust) of wisdom

    Like

  4. @Euan – You wrote "The downsides of social conformity are also immense and immediate." I replied (in part) "How about, yes, immense … catastrophic … but more long term. More distant. Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate."What part of that is noise? I don't understand what deserves "Eh?" as response.HeyHo, is what I get for not going along.

    Like

  5. No Ben I genuinely didn't understand what you were saying and still don't. It was another commenter who suggested your contribution was noise I was genuinely seeking clarification.

    Like

  6. @euan – thanks for that. But I still find this sort of frightening / chilling.This exchange fails:Euan: "The downsides of social conformity are also immense and immediate."Ben "How about, yes, immense … catastrophic … but more long term. More distant. Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate."I find that … well, yes, chilling.

    Like

  7. Take me through this more slowly then – I have no idea what ""How about, yes, immense … catastrophic … but more long term. More distant. Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate." means! I actually meant that the effects of social conformity are more immediate and personal whereas I think you are suggesting the opposite?

    Like

  8. You wrote that they're immense and immediate.I write "How about, yes, immense and catastrophic … but more long term. More distant."I'm trying to calibrate here. See I don't understand how that can be so confusing."Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate." I'm sorry, that seems quite readable.Chilling … it gives me the willies..You wrote "immediate". I write "mediate … distal rather than proximate". I'm sorry, I don't see how that comes to be confusing.

    Like

  9. Yes and I just said I thought they were personal and short term rather than distant and long term so was seeking clarification of why we were differing. I am afraid I still need "Quite literally mediate … distal rather than proximate." explained rather than repeated yet again!!

    Like

  10. Like I said, I was trying to calibrate: looking for where the confusion was.There for sure are personal and short term consequences. But "downside"? It makes no sense to me that folk routinely conform because the immediate consequences are /negative/.I go along with the bully … I immediately avoid a beating. Long term? Maybe my self-esteem is eroded.I go along with the pointed-headed boss … I immediately avoid confrontation. Long term? Maybe I end up hating my job.I go along with a plan I think is basically wrong … I immediately am perceived as a team player. Long term? Things go pear-shaped and I feel like an unprincipled sellout.I don't see how immediate consequences are "downside". If that was so, conforming wouldn't be the norm. And it is. IMNSHO, of course.We on the same page here?p.s. "The nail that sticks out gets hammered" … "Don't make waves" … social pressure to play along. Conformity is /rewarded/. Downside? I'd say that's displaced … long-term … distal … mediated by all sorts of intervening events.

    Like

  11. Sidebar: any one of the Morton Thiokol engineers could have said, "Two plus two is four. Under good conditions we get blow-past on the rings. The shuttle's been cold-soaked for hours. This is NoGo." None did. Paradigmatic of how /immediately/ the thing to do is conform i.e. suppress "outlying data". Downside? That's down the road. Maybe a whole lot, maybe only a bit."Take off your engineers' hats and put on your managers' hats." That was the instruction everything hinged on. And the shuttle exploded because of that, the distal consequence. The proximate consequences of standing out would have been … well, you know how that goes.

    Like

  12. heh … ok. So now I'm the one confused. ;)You wrote "The downsides of social conformity are also immense and immediate." … which seems to contradict what I wrote just now.So you see why my first reply was, "Euan? You figure? Going along with the party line / group think has immediate negative consequences. Golly … that makes things hard to figure."

    Like

  13. WIh conformity, immediately the status quo is both produced and reinforced – that is a very powerful immediate consequence.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s